Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:36 pm

higgs1634 wrote:
Amadeus wrote:
frank - up in grand blanc wrote:
higgs1634 wrote:
D-Day wrote:.

However, the claim of racism gets really complicated when you realize that the stiff penalties against crack were supported by the Congressional Black Caucus in the mid-80's. That little nugget of contrary evidence got flushed down the memory hole.

The issue isn't "racism" it's the disparate impact on AAs that resulted. good intentions....bad result. It's not just the crack stuff, it's the three strike/mandatory minimums for repeat offenders that are jacking up the sentencing and having disparate affects.


I understand that part. Don't necessarily embrace the interpretation but I'm familiar with the argument. John Rawls, I believe, who argued similarly the paradox that in order to have a colorblind society we cannot be colorblind, meaning that affirmative action is necessary, etc. To wit, examine the de facto aspects independent of the de jure foundation and act to correct whatever imbalance is discovered.

I don't believe that we're far apart at all on this front.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby D-Day » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:13 pm

higgs1634 wrote:
D-Day wrote:I wold say good luck with this, but the President just commuted the sentences of 46 felons [ federal prisoners locked up for nonviolent drug offenses] and lectured us all about the collective blessings that will showered down on the country if we just love them more (facepalm). In fact if we just loved our felons more, trickle down economics will actually work. But I digress. So nothing surprises me anymore.......

The scmaltz laid on a little heavy I'll grant you, but these were commutations, not pardons, they weren't absolved of their crime..they're still felons, they just got out early. The issue is when they got sentenced, reactionary sentencing guidelines enacted during a crime wave meant that they and thousands of others are serving prison terms way longer than what they would receive today.

Again, putting aside the politcal smarm of the "they were just making mistakes" for a minute... it's indisputable that non violent drug charges are handled in vastly different ways depending on the wealth or race of the individual. Jamaal selling crack gets a federal stretch...jimmy selling weed up at UM got a ticket.


So, I'll just come out and say this with the caveat that I'm probably not the right person to express this opinion right now and won't be the right person for quite some time. There is no such thing as a non-violent drug offense. Just because no one dies, or no one walks away with a bruise doesn't make it "non-violent"

My daughter's dealer doled out plenty of violence to us and a lot of other people on a regular basis and continues to do so right now; free as a bird, too. How many more families that have had to bury children did ,he or she, metaphorically drive the getaway car for? And I would be absolutely out of my mind livid if anyone commuted that lower than whale shit scum's sentence (were they up the river)
Last edited by D-Day on Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby thunderstruck » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:31 pm

I'm no expert but I recall there being enormous concern during the crack heyday about the effect on the neighborhoods in Detroit. The murder rate spiked, gang activity was ramped up, bullets were flying every day, and consensus seemed to be that a few hits on the crack pipe doomed the user to devastating addiction. Meanwhile, powder was kinda like Chardonnay. Whether by the drug's effect or the patron's lifestyle, it didn't seem to provoke the near terror about devastating results, Scarface not withstanding.

So the reaction, to me, is understandable. As is the concern now about how many black guys are in prison for opting to sling drugs instead of burgers. Our prison population is way too high, it costs way too much, and it sets the stage for a lot of struggle in ex-felon's lives. At the same time, we do have laws against drug usage and selling for good reason, because drugs all too often are brutally destructive.

This is tough to say, knowing D-Day's family tragedy with drugs, but when I look at the overall effect of drugs being illegal, I wonder if legalizing more than just pot might be best. There's so much illicit profit in drug dealing and the accompanying cost in violence, crime, and value destruction that I wonder if broad legalization combined with intensive availability of drug rehab/counseling might work out better in the long run.

A small example: I moved to Boston one night, the next morning my car was gone. By the time I reported it missing it had been found where stolen cars were often found. The cop said they knew who took it, and ripped the stereo out of the dash and stole the wheels, and caused (back then) $6000 in damage. The same guy who stole one every night from my new neighborhood. He had a drug habit. He stole one each day. $6000 x 365 is about $2 million per year in property damage to society, plus all the hassle for 365 victims, all so he could get high on drugs that would probably cost no more than $1K per year if we just gave them to him. I don't know if that's the answer, but it got me thinking.

The other thing that has me wondering is "disparate impact". When actual racism can't be found this becomes the justification for a whole social agenda that shows no notion of limits. The recent housing supreme court case being one example. The way our country works, absent actual racism or discrimination, is that similar socio-economic types cluster. Ethnicities cluster. It's not an ill that needs another government program or DOJ consent decree. We won't soon if ever be a colloidal mixture. Forcing it against free people's wishes reduces freedom.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby Amadeus » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:50 am

thunderstruck wrote:... I wonder if legalizing more than just pot might be best. There's so much illicit profit in drug dealing and the accompanying cost in violence, crime, and value destruction that I wonder if broad legalization combined with intensive availability of drug rehab/counseling might work out better in the long run.


We need to follow Portugal's lead. It's been almost 15 years since the decriminalization there, and their numbers are better than ours.

http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years ... -happening

The important thing to keep in mind is that Portugal switched from a legal model to a public health model to combat drug use/abuse.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby D-Day » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:03 am

thunderstruck wrote:I'm no expert but I recall there being enormous concern during the crack heyday about the effect on the neighborhoods in Detroit. The murder rate spiked, gang activity was ramped up, bullets were flying every day, and consensus seemed to be that a few hits on the crack pipe doomed the user to devastating addiction. Meanwhile, powder was kinda like Chardonnay. Whether by the drug's effect or the patron's lifestyle, it didn't seem to provoke the near terror about devastating results, Scarface not withstanding.

So the reaction, to me, is understandable. As is the concern now about how many black guys are in prison for opting to sling drugs instead of burgers. Our prison population is way too high, it costs way too much, and it sets the stage for a lot of struggle in ex-felon's lives. At the same time, we do have laws against drug usage and selling for good reason, because drugs all too often are brutally destructive.

This is tough to say, knowing D-Day's family tragedy with drugs, but when I look at the overall effect of drugs being illegal, I wonder if legalizing more than just pot might be best. There's so much illicit profit in drug dealing and the accompanying cost in violence, crime, and value destruction that I wonder if broad legalization combined with intensive availability of drug rehab/counseling might work out better in the long run.

A small example: I moved to Boston one night, the next morning my car was gone. By the time I reported it missing it had been found where stolen cars were often found. The cop said they knew who took it, and ripped the stereo out of the dash and stole the wheels, and caused (back then) $6000 in damage. The same guy who stole one every night from my new neighborhood. He had a drug habit. He stole one each day. $6000 x 365 is about $2 million per year in property damage to society, plus all the hassle for 365 victims, all so he could get high on drugs that would probably cost no more than $1K per year if we just gave them to him. I don't know if that's the answer, but it got me thinking.

The other thing that has me wondering is "disparate impact". When actual racism can't be found this becomes the justification for a whole social agenda that shows no notion of limits. The recent housing supreme court case being one example. The way our country works, absent actual racism or discrimination, is that similar socio-economic types cluster. Ethnicities cluster. It's not an ill that needs another government program or DOJ consent decree. We won't soon if ever be a colloidal mixture. Forcing it against free people's wishes reduces freedom


Amadeus wrote:
thunderstruck wrote:... I wonder if legalizing more than just pot might be best. There's so much illicit profit in drug dealing and the accompanying cost in violence, crime, and value destruction that I wonder if broad legalization combined with intensive availability of drug rehab/counseling might work out better in the long run.


We need to follow Portugal's lead. It's been almost 15 years since the decriminalization there, and their numbers are better than ours.

http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years ... -happening

The important thing to keep in mind is that Portugal switched from a legal model to a public health model to combat drug use/abuse.


Here are the issues I have with legalizing harder drugs than pot. I am actually in favor of legalizing pot. I have yet to see anyone who has robbed their loved ones half blind order to obtain pot. Heroin, coke, meth, and their derivatives, not so much. And what about legal prescription drugs that are the start of many addictions? That's what led the Tango Uniform D-Day down the dark path that eventually led to her demise. First it was pills, and when those got too expensive, it was a needle. The D-Day In The Can was just stupid, tried it once and, bam, he's hooked

The problem with users are that they're not the victimized wilted flowers that people love to portray them as. They're, most likely, criminals, too, in order to obtain their drugs. And they will scheme in ways that you can't imagine in order to get them. All told, we paid damn near $1000 (We found more at other locations) in getting not even half of our stuff back that the Tango Uniform D-Day stole from us. Most of that just since last Christmas. She was about to be found out and she knew that she was looking at, not only the time that she would have served for the possession charge she was already on probation for, but had she survived her OD, we would have gone after her, as well, and she would have been looking at a slew of theft charges, too. She was not headed for 30 days in the Butler County hole, she was headed up the river and she knew it. The Tango Uniform D-Day was a user, but she was a criminal, too. She wasn't like that before she got hooked. but the fact of the matter is that she got hooked and did all this to us, her family. I shudder to think who else she ripped off. A drug user has to hit rock bottom before they will change (if at all). The Tango Uniform D-Day saw rock bottom, couldn't handle it, and checked out. The D-Day In The Can is there right now, but he's doing it in jail. Where he's safe. Mrs. D-Day and I are convinced that having him re-arrested a few days after his sister died saved us from having to bury another one. And also, this five month stint in jail awaiting his sentence has been the best thing possible for him. Without them seeing rock bottom because of the availability of drugs, I don't see where any amount of rehab is going to help. They're just going to go into rehab, tell the counselors what they want to hear, leave, and get high as soon as they're gone. And they'll do it until they kill themselves

And here's another angle to this. D-Day In The Can's sentencing on two minor felonies (the prosecutor dropped the other two charges) is next Friday. His lawyer has been in contact with me since all of this happened. He got popped for selling 200 hits of (allegedly -- what we have been told -- fake) acid to an undercover Geauga County sheriff. Apparently, one of his buddies in Cleveland rolled over on him and that's how the cops were tipped off. He's looking at probably time served, 90 days inpatient rehab at a facility up there after which he'll have a couple years probation which we're hoping to get transferred to Butler County from Geauga County. There's nobody in Cleveland for him anymore, so keeping him up there is pretty much a death sentence. Here's where I differ from most parents. This sentence is way too lenient. My son is not an honor student. He's not a good kid. At present, he's a junkie, he's a thief, and he's a drug dealer. I am literally horrified that he would have tried to infect someplace with 200 hits of acid and he was raised in my house. He stole my wallet, hid it in the house the day before he was arrested, and had to be threatened with us abandoning him up in jail before he fessed up! All because he wanted the $2 that was in my wallet trying to cobble together the $15 for a score. I mean, WTF?! And when he finally comes home, everyone else that lives in my house will be in their own form of jail because he's there and can't be trusted. All doors locked when not in the house. No more taking off for the weekend for Mrs. D-Day and I unless we take him with, because one of us needs to be in the house at all times if he's home and he can't be trusted to go to one of his "friends" houses. Which leads me to my point, the thought of having an active user living in my house with access to heroin is anathema to me right now (and once again, I'll throw the caveat that I might not be in the right place to cast an informed opinion). What's to stop him, once he goes through his "allocation", to reverting back to stealing to get more? I get the intention, and it's noble, but I just don't see it
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby Mad Max » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:06 pm

Kwame Kilpatrick’s conviction and sentence upheld

Ex-Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick lost his appeal seeking to have his public corruption conviction, which led to a 28-year prison sentence, overturned.

A decision by a panel of three judges with the Cincinnati-based 6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals was released today. It upheld the convictions and sentences of Kilpatrick and his longtime contractor friend and co-defendant, Bobby Ferguson, who was sentenced to 21 years in prison.

But the ruling found the district court’s restitution award against Kilpatrick for $4.58 million to the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department wasn’t properly calculated and ordered it be calculated again by the court in Detroit.

Kilpatrick's six-month trial included dozens of witnesses, hundreds of exhibits and ended with Kilpatrick being convicted of 24 counts for crimes including racketeering, extortion and bribery.

He is serving his sentence in El Reno, Okla.,l for the 2013 convictions.

Kilpatrick's appeal focused heavily on his former attorney, James Thomas. One of the arguments Kilpatrick's appellate lawyer, Harold Gurewitz, made was that Kilpatrick's constitutional right to a conflict-free lawyer was violated.

The prosecution maintains Kilpatrick was fairly convicted.

"We are gratified that the jury's verdict has been upheld and believe that the decision is thorough and well reasoned," Gina Balaya, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office, said in a statement today.

Gurewitz said he was disappointed in the court’s decision and likely will appeal.

“We need to ask for further consideration on this so that there’s a proper review and determination of the issues that we raised,” he said.

Ferguson’s attorney, Susan Van Dusen, could not be reached for comment.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2015/08/14/kwame-kilpatrick-appeal-conviction-upheld/31724407/
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby Morty » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:48 pm

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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby vlad the impaler » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:21 pm

That's that. I remember when he was pulling ham-handed shenanigans during the trial as an obvious basis for future appeals (like claiming Jim Thomas was ineffective counsel) and thinking to myself, well, if he pulls it off, maybe he is smarter than everyone. Nope. Didn't work.

The only thing he can hope for now is presidential clemency this December. Unlikely but the flood gates could open.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:28 pm

Ha! Justice prevails. Long before the trials he and his crowd brought to mind Leona Helmsley and her crack that taxes were for the little people except that in Kwame's case it was laws and morals. So nice to see someone who flagrantly scoffed at the law and decency get his comeuppance. Ive earned my money and I bet that after today he wishes that he could say the same.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby The Suburban Avenger » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:46 pm

The chances of it happening are about the same as the Lions getting to a Super Bowl, but I still wonder if Kilpatrick is sitting around waiting for word of his pardon in the final days of the Obama administration.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby Morty » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:54 pm

The Suburban Avenger wrote:The chances of it happening are about the same as the Lions getting to a Super Bowl, but I still wonder if Kilpatrick is sitting around waiting for word of his pardon in the final days of the Obama administration.



I was thinking the same thing. There has been a lot of talk on the radio about Obama's flurry of pardons. It appears as though our prayers have been answered.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby D-Day » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:25 pm

Morty wrote:
The Suburban Avenger wrote:The chances of it happening are about the same as the Lions getting to a Super Bowl, but I still wonder if Kilpatrick is sitting around waiting for word of his pardon in the final days of the Obama administration.



I was thinking the same thing. There has been a lot of talk on the radio about Obama's flurry of pardons. It appears as though our prayers have been answered.


He pardoned a traitor. He still has 48 hours.......
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby middle aged female » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:19 am

D-Day wrote:
Morty wrote:
The Suburban Avenger wrote:The chances of it happening are about the same as the Lions getting to a Super Bowl, but I still wonder if Kilpatrick is sitting around waiting for word of his pardon in the final days of the Obama administration.



I was thinking the same thing. There has been a lot of talk on the radio about Obama's flurry of pardons. It appears as though our prayers have been answered.


He pardoned a traitor. He still has 48 hours.......

He didn't pardon her; he commuted her sentence. She serves 4 more months and is still guilty
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby Craig » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:06 am

middle aged female wrote:
D-Day wrote:
Morty wrote:
The Suburban Avenger wrote:The chances of it happening are about the same as the Lions getting to a Super Bowl, but I still wonder if Kilpatrick is sitting around waiting for word of his pardon in the final days of the Obama administration.



I was thinking the same thing. There has been a lot of talk on the radio about Obama's flurry of pardons. It appears as though our prayers have been answered.


He pardoned a traitor. He still has 48 hours.......

He didn't pardon her; he commuted her sentence. She serves 4 more months and is still guilty


Still looks like a "get out of jail free" card to me. News reports said that this Benedict Arnold was sad about being in prison so commutation is exactly what Private Shithead wants.
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Re: Hot Fudge Kwame Time: Part II

Postby middle aged female » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:56 am

Craig wrote:
middle aged female wrote:
D-Day wrote:
Morty wrote:
The Suburban Avenger wrote:The chances of it happening are about the same as the Lions getting to a Super Bowl, but I still wonder if Kilpatrick is sitting around waiting for word of his pardon in the final days of the Obama administration.



I was thinking the same thing. There has been a lot of talk on the radio about Obama's flurry of pardons. It appears as though our prayers have been answered.


He pardoned a traitor. He still has 48 hours.......

He didn't pardon her; he commuted her sentence. She serves 4 more months and is still guilty


Still looks like a "get out of jail free" card to me. News reports said that this Benedict Arnold was sad about being in prison so commutation is exactly what Private Shithead wants.

It's still not a pardon; she will always remain guilty as charged.
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