Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby The Suburban Avenger » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:37 pm

It seems every columnist and pundit has shouted themselves hoarse since the Freeh Report came out, calling for Penn State to knock down the statue of Paterno, abandon the coming football season and do whatever else they think is punitive enough.

- The statue: It's going to come down soon enough, but I think the university is smart to let everyone cool down a bit before they do so. Knock it down tomorrow, and you'll have a royal mess on your hands with scads of the same morons who built the cult of personality around Joe Paterno causing a scene. Wait until the settlement checks start going off to Sandusky's victims ... that oughta be enough time.

- Football: Just fucking stop with the 'death penalty' talk. It appears there could be some NCAA violations and the university almost certainly will roll over and plead mercy, but getting rid of football is shortsighted and simplistic. For starters, it makes the university a shitload of money and will continue to make the university a shitload of money. I assure you, Penn State will have no problems filling Beaver Stadium this fall (there's a good euphemism).
Shutting the program down also needlessly punishes the current players and coaching staff, who, as far as anyone seems to know, had no knowledge of Sandusky's actions or were involved in the subsequent cover-up. The most fitting punishment is what almost certainly will come to the former president and athletic director: Prison time.
That said, the howls from Dallas (where SMU boosters eschewed diddling little boys in favor of what essentially amounted to indentured servitude), will be amusing. If the NCAA wouldn't bury Alabama for the myriad violations committed under Gene Stallings and Mike Dubose, it isn't going to bury Penn State.

A positive effect of all this should be universities making their athletic departments more directly accountable, both to the trustees and taxpayers. The revenue generated and money spent by a major athletic department will make you puke, and when those departments essentially become fiefdoms ruled by an AD or iconic coach, they generally tend to do whatever it takes to keep that money tree growing. I doubt it will stop many of the things that make the underside of college sports so sickening, but it likely will give trustees and residents pause when it's clearly spelled out how wasteful their big-school athletic departments are.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby D-Day » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:34 pm

The Suburban Avenger wrote:It seems every columnist and pundit has shouted themselves hoarse since the Freeh Report came out, calling for Penn State to knock down the statue of Paterno, abandon the coming football season and do whatever else they think is punitive enough.

- The statue: It's going to come down soon enough, but I think the university is smart to let everyone cool down a bit before they do so. Knock it down tomorrow, and you'll have a royal mess on your hands with scads of the same morons who built the cult of personality around Joe Paterno causing a scene. Wait until the settlement checks start going off to Sandusky's victims ... that oughta be enough time.

- Football: Just fucking stop with the 'death penalty' talk. It appears there could be some NCAA violations and the university almost certainly will roll over and plead mercy, but getting rid of football is shortsighted and simplistic. For starters, it makes the university a shitload of money and will continue to make the university a shitload of money. I assure you, Penn State will have no problems filling Beaver Stadium this fall (there's a good euphemism).
Shutting the program down also needlessly punishes the current players and coaching staff, who, as far as anyone seems to know, had no knowledge of Sandusky's actions or were involved in the subsequent cover-up. The most fitting punishment is what almost certainly will come to the former president and athletic director: Prison time.
That said, the howls from Dallas (where SMU boosters eschewed diddling little boys in favor of what essentially amounted to indentured servitude), will be amusing. If the NCAA wouldn't bury Alabama for the myriad violations committed under Gene Stallings and Mike Dubose, it isn't going to bury Penn State.

A positive effect of all this should be universities making their athletic departments more directly accountable, both to the trustees and taxpayers. The revenue generated and money spent by a major athletic department will make you puke, and when those departments essentially become fiefdoms ruled by an AD or iconic coach, they generally tend to do whatever it takes to keep that money tree growing. I doubt it will stop many of the things that make the underside of college sports so sickening, but it likely will give trustees and residents pause when it's clearly spelled out how wasteful their big-school athletic departments are.


Well said...
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Andy » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:40 am

The Suburban Avenger wrote:It seems every columnist and pundit has shouted themselves hoarse since the Freeh Report came out, calling for Penn State to knock down the statue of Paterno, abandon the coming football season and do whatever else they think is punitive enough.

- The statue: It's going to come down soon enough, but I think the university is smart to let everyone cool down a bit before they do so. Knock it down tomorrow, and you'll have a royal mess on your hands with scads of the same morons who built the cult of personality around Joe Paterno causing a scene. Wait until the settlement checks start going off to Sandusky's victims ... that oughta be enough time.


I agree with that.

- Football: Just fucking stop with the 'death penalty' talk. It appears there could be some NCAA violations and the university almost certainly will roll over and plead mercy, but getting rid of football is shortsighted and simplistic. For starters, it makes the university a shitload of money and will continue to make the university a shitload of money. I assure you, Penn State will have no problems filling Beaver Stadium this fall (there's a good euphemism).
Shutting the program down also needlessly punishes the current players and coaching staff, who, as far as anyone seems to know, had no knowledge of Sandusky's actions or were involved in the subsequent cover-up. The most fitting punishment is what almost certainly will come to the former president and athletic director: Prison time.
That said, the howls from Dallas (where SMU boosters eschewed diddling little boys in favor of what essentially amounted to indentured servitude), will be amusing. If the NCAA wouldn't bury Alabama for the myriad violations committed under Gene Stallings and Mike Dubose, it isn't going to bury Penn State.


If the main reasoning for keeping the football program around is to keep the money flowing, isn't that the reason this whole mess started in the first place? I agree that Beaver Stadium would be filled, but the media bullseye on it and endless hand-wringing and scorn will only grow. I'd rather see the program shut down than a slow strangulation where the team becomes mediocre and sympathetic.

And I get that there will be collateral damage from shuttering their football program, but I find it hard to believe an available student athlete or competent college coach would wander alone too long before another school came a'calling. Seems to me that happens ever year, it's not foreign territory. They'll be just fine.

Besides, among those athletes and coaches who didn't know--not counting the ignorant ones--I would imagine some would welcome a fresh start. If I was one of the innocents and just found out, I'd prefer to leave. Who would want to work/play in that environment? What's the point?
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby The Beav » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:58 am

Andy wrote:
And I get that there will be collateral damage from shuttering their football program, but I find it hard to believe an available student athlete or competent college coach would wander alone too long before another school came a'calling. Seems to me that happens ever year, it's not foreign territory. They'll be just fine.


The damage won't stop there, though. Think of the businesses and people that benefit from every Saturday (home game or not).
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Andy » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:12 am

The Beav wrote:
Andy wrote:
And I get that there will be collateral damage from shuttering their football program, but I find it hard to believe an available student athlete or competent college coach would wander alone too long before another school came a'calling. Seems to me that happens ever year, it's not foreign territory. They'll be just fine.


The damage won't stop there, though. Think of the businesses and people that benefit from every Saturday (home game or not).


Talk about a deal with the devil. It kinda reinforces how this all happened in the first place, eh? Too big to fail?

I think those businesses can survive in a college town. College kids will always want to drink and party.

I guess the most effective weapon towards Penn State and the remaining apologists is scorn and (hopefully bitingly funny) ridicule.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Ya Mar » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:27 am

Andy wrote:
The Beav wrote:
Andy wrote:
And I get that there will be collateral damage from shuttering their football program, but I find it hard to believe an available student athlete or competent college coach would wander alone too long before another school came a'calling. Seems to me that happens ever year, it's not foreign territory. They'll be just fine.


The damage won't stop there, though. Think of the businesses and people that benefit from every Saturday (home game or not).


Talk about a deal with the devil. It kinda reinforces how this all happened in the first place, eh? Too big to fail?

I think those businesses can survive in a college town. College kids will always want to drink and party.

I guess the most effective weapon towards Penn State and the remaining apologists is scorn and (hopefully bitingly funny) ridicule.

too big to fail. great analogy.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby The Suburban Avenger » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:36 pm

Take the money out of the equation and I still don't think football is to blame. Joe Paterno just as easily could've been an iconic basketball, swimming or soccer coach (the latter two are improbable, of course) ... would killing off the basketball, swimming or soccer program make things better?

And you hit on something, Andy:

I guess the most effective weapon towards Penn State and the remaining apologists is scorn and (hopefully bitingly funny) ridicule.


That's pretty much what the rest of the media not in contract with Penn State/Big Ten/whatever bowl game they're playing in will do: Repeatedly bring up the Sandusky affair and subsequent cover-up. It's going to stick to Penn State for decades.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby The Beav » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:56 pm

The Suburban Avenger wrote:Take the money out of the equation and I still don't think football is to blame. Joe Paterno just as easily could've been an iconic basketball, swimming or soccer coach (the latter two are improbable, of course) ... would killing off the basketball, swimming or soccer program make things better?

And you hit on something, Andy:

I guess the most effective weapon towards Penn State and the remaining apologists is scorn and (hopefully bitingly funny) ridicule.


That's pretty much what the rest of the media not in contract with Penn State/Big Ten/whatever bowl game they're playing in will do: Repeatedly bring up the Sandusky affair and subsequent cover-up. It's going to stick to Penn State for decades.


How long into the first away game will the tactless/classless chants start?
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Ya Mar » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:15 pm

The Beav wrote:
The Suburban Avenger wrote:Take the money out of the equation and I still don't think football is to blame. Joe Paterno just as easily could've been an iconic basketball, swimming or soccer coach (the latter two are improbable, of course) ... would killing off the basketball, swimming or soccer program make things better?

And you hit on something, Andy:

I guess the most effective weapon towards Penn State and the remaining apologists is scorn and (hopefully bitingly funny) ridicule.


That's pretty much what the rest of the media not in contract with Penn State/Big Ten/whatever bowl game they're playing in will do: Repeatedly bring up the Sandusky affair and subsequent cover-up. It's going to stick to Penn State for decades.


How long into the first away game will the tactless/classless chants start?


Couldn't be much more classless than the PLO chants at ASU every-time Arizona guard Steve Kerr touched the ball (In case you don't remember the story, Kerr's dad was killed in Beirut by terrorists).

So at least the chants will be against PSU or Sandusky and not the victims.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby The Beav » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:47 pm

Ya Mar wrote:
The Beav wrote:
The Suburban Avenger wrote:Take the money out of the equation and I still don't think football is to blame. Joe Paterno just as easily could've been an iconic basketball, swimming or soccer coach (the latter two are improbable, of course) ... would killing off the basketball, swimming or soccer program make things better?

And you hit on something, Andy:

I guess the most effective weapon towards Penn State and the remaining apologists is scorn and (hopefully bitingly funny) ridicule.


That's pretty much what the rest of the media not in contract with Penn State/Big Ten/whatever bowl game they're playing in will do: Repeatedly bring up the Sandusky affair and subsequent cover-up. It's going to stick to Penn State for decades.


How long into the first away game will the tactless/classless chants start?


Couldn't be much more classless than the PLO chants at ASU every-time Arizona guard Steve Kerr touched the ball (In case you don't remember the story, Kerr's dad was killed in Beirut by terrorists).


True, but still classless.

So at least the chants will be against PSU or Sandusky and not the victims.


And that makes it OK?
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Ya Mar » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:01 pm

Well, I am just saying that no matter what people do here, it can't be worse than ASU. They taunted a kid who's dad was killed by the PLO by chanting PLO. Unless, on of the victims is a football player somewhere and they decide to make fun of him because he was a victim.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Andy » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:05 pm

I wonder if this holds any water.

Though the NCAA's president says all options will be considered, college sports' governing body may have few options when it comes to punishing Penn State's football program in the wake of its child sex abuse scandal, according to those who have defended and helped sanction NCAA rule breakers.

Former NCAA infractions committee chairmen and investigators condemn what happened at Penn State according to the report by former FBI director Louis Freeh — Penn State senior leaders concealing information that could have stopped Jerry Sandusky from sexually abusing children. But they say one significant challenge looms for the NCAA: finding an NCAA rules violation.

"That's the problem — there isn't one," said David Swank, a former chair of the infractions committee that acts as judge and jury in NCAA investigations.

Because Penn State's transgressions might not involve violating traditional NCAA bylaws, leveling sanctions might require the NCAA enforcement staff to alter how it holds programs accountable and for what behavior. Mike Glazier, an attorney who represents schools during NCAA investigations, said: "If they (the NCAA) decide to get into it and apply their enforcement procedures, it would be unprecedented for them."


NCAA President Mark Emmert said Monday in a PBS interview that he does not want to "take anything off the table" if the NCAA determines penalties are warranted against Penn State and that he has "never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university."

One possibility is for the NCAA to hit Penn State with lack of institutional control — a charge that historically warrants harsh penalties such as those recently levied against Ohio State and Southern Califiornia — but that dubious distinction has always been tied to other specific rules violations, said Tom Yeager, a former chair of the infractions committee.

Chuck Smrt, who was employed by the NCAA's enforcement staff for more than 17 years, said the NCAA in the past has addressed situations involving school officials concealing information related to potential NCAA violations. But Smrt, who now assists universities with compliance and investigations as president of The Compliance Group, did not recall the NCAA ever addressing situations involving school officials concealing information related to potential criminal activity.

"To have a penalty you have to have a violation. So what is the violation?" said Smrt, who has been present at more than 100 hearings before the infractions committee. "And to go down that path, you have to go down the path of university administrators did not properly review information concerning a potential criminal violation. I am not aware of the NCAA ever making that finding."

Penn State is preparing for some kind of NCAA action. Said school spokesman David La Torre, "We are in the process of engaging counsel."

School President Rodney Erickson told the Associated Press that it will respond to the NCAA's demand for information within days as the governing body decides whether the university should face penalties. In November, Emmert sent the school a list of questions he wanted answered that would examine the "exercise of institutional control."

No one disputes that the Penn State case represents an unprecedented set of circumstances involving egregious behavior that occurred over a long period and saw a football community at times permitted to operate by its own set of rules within the university.

Swank said there is "no question" there was unethical conduct by senior leaders who concealed information. But historically the NCAA's charge of unethical conduct has been tied to other specific rules violations, he said.

"It's horribly egregious conduct, and I don't think anybody would condone it," Swank said. "What are the agencies that are charged with taking care of this? That is your criminal court and your civil court. Not the NCAA. It just does not fit for the NCAA to step into this particular issue."

Yeager said reasonable people are "repulsed" by the findings at Penn State. But he said for the NCAA to cite the university with lack of institutional control would require a different application of the charge because this presents a "very different" set of circumstances.

"I'm not saying it's right or wrong," Yeager said. "It would be kind of a unique situation. Most situations that have shown widespread lack of control in an athletic situation there have been your share of NCAA violations attached, which made it a little easier to attach it to known NCAA rule violations."

The NCAA informed Penn State in November that that the NCAA would be examining the "exercise of institutional control" within the Penn State athletics department. And the NCAA said last week that it expects Penn State to answer a handful of critical questions related to its handling of the sex-abuse scandal.

A public debate has raged on Twitter and in the news media in recent weeks over whether Penn State should be the second major college football team to receive the so-called death penalty. In the late 1980s, Southern Methodist became the only major college football team ever forced to drop the sport for a period of time because of widespread NCAA violations.

Programs usually come under consideration for the death penalty if they are repeat violators, meaning that the respective universities had other major rules violations in the previous five years. But Smrt and Yeager said the death penalty is always an option when the infractions committee decides how to punish schools in cases that involve major violations.

"Unfortunately, someone (a school) could go from 0 to 60 (mph) with something so egregious, so it does not have to be a repeat violator — could be right out of the blocks," Yeager said.

"The understanding we always had was that the committee on infractions really has the liberty, and the list of penalties for major violations is really expansive, to be able to craft any type of penalty it believes appropriate."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ ... 56285588/1
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Ya Mar » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:49 am

NCAA source: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State

NCAA President Mark Emmert delivers his State of the Association speech during the NCAA's annual convention on Thursday, Jan. 12, 2012, in Indianapolis. (AP Photo/Darron Cummings)
(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.

The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.

The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics.
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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby Andy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:40 am

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Re: Penn State (and other sports sex crimes) Scandal Thread

Postby The Beav » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:49 am

So what happens now to the PSU players who transfer without penalty and take the starting jobs of other kids on other teams? Where's the justice for them and their hard work? I think the amount of collateral damage to innocent parties just to prove how much everyone hates pedophiles is mostly grand-standing. Monetary fines to the school are great. Firing the folks who took part in the cover-up is not enough. Prosecute them. Take down the statue? Meh. Do we now pull down every statue of Thomas Jefferson, a known rapist?

We know what happened was horrendous and terrifying to the victims. The only folks who don't get that are other pedophiles. Prosecute those responsible.

The 97.1 shitheads took a call from an actual survivor of abuse an he expressed a similar opinion to mine, and was basically cut off and told the incident was similar to dropping the bomb on Japan. Collateral damage can be written off. Bullshit. The media is doing what it does best by trying to be the judge, jury and executioner and I don't agree with it. This is becoming akin to a witch hunt. Everyone hates witches! Burn 'em! Burn 'em all!
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