Stuff that is totally played out

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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby gullycanyon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:39 pm

Well, one is quite a bit darker than the other, and my vision isn't totally shot to hell, so I'll take that bet, sir.

But wait, naw, seriously doe. You mean to tell me that "looks like wall clock at Sacred Heart of Roseville Elementary School, circa 1965" is currently considered to be a sought-after, tray-zelleganty "styling?"
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby ldodger » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:27 pm

Shinola bikes aren't made here?
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:51 pm

I looked at a Shinola but couldn't tell the difference.
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby D-Day » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:54 pm

ldodger wrote:Shinola bikes aren't made here?


....and does that make them shit???
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby The Suburban Avenger » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:38 pm

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:I looked at a Shinola but couldn't tell the difference.


Well done!
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby The Fickle Finger » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:21 am

The Suburban Avenger wrote:The Shinola Runwell, retails for about $550-700
Image

The Timex Weekender, retails for $40-55
Image

Spend an extra $25-40 for a nice leather band and I dare you to tell the difference from more than two feet away.


Just dug a couple of old style Timex watches out of a box in the basement, maybe it's time to see if I can resurrect them.
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby Toolbox » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:01 am

ldodger wrote:Shinola bikes aren't made here?


Define "made".

They are assembled here from domestic and foreign parts. The frames come out of the old Schwinn Waterford plant, this was the facility that made the custom built Paramount bikes. Just like all the watch parts are made in various locations for final assembly in Detroit.


Waterford is a hand-builder of fine custom bicycle frames. Its factory is located in Waterford, Wisconsin, 30 miles southwest of downtown Milwaukee. Founded in 1993, Waterford took over Schwinn Bicycle Company’s Paramount Design Group research and production facility.

Founded by Richard Schwinn and Marc Muller, Waterford built on the Paramount history of excellence and performance and has established its own reputation the custom bicycle world.


I used to make bikes in Hazel Park and Rochester by the Shinola definition.
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby ldodger » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:28 am

Toolbox wrote:
ldodger wrote:Shinola bikes aren't made here?


Define "made".

They are assembled here from domestic and foreign parts. The frames come out of the old Schwinn Waterford plant, this was the facility that made the custom built Paramount bikes. Just like all the watch parts are made in various locations for final assembly in Detroit.


Waterford is a hand-builder of fine custom bicycle frames. Its factory is located in Waterford, Wisconsin, 30 miles southwest of downtown Milwaukee. Founded in 1993, Waterford took over Schwinn Bicycle Company’s Paramount Design Group research and production facility.

Founded by Richard Schwinn and Marc Muller, Waterford built on the Paramount history of excellence and performance and has established its own reputation the custom bicycle world.


I used to make bikes in Hazel Park and Rochester by the Shinola definition.


Well now, that's embarrassing. I thought all parts were created (wait, handcrafted) in Detroit. At least that was the impression all the hoopla has generated. I really thought there was a warehouse somewhere in Detroit with a bunch of folks "crafting" bike frames and whatnot. Seriously.
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby middle aged female » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:42 am

ldodger wrote:
Toolbox wrote:
ldodger wrote:Shinola bikes aren't made here?


Define "made".

They are assembled here from domestic and foreign parts. The frames come out of the old Schwinn Waterford plant, this was the facility that made the custom built Paramount bikes. Just like all the watch parts are made in various locations for final assembly in Detroit.


Waterford is a hand-builder of fine custom bicycle frames. Its factory is located in Waterford, Wisconsin, 30 miles southwest of downtown Milwaukee. Founded in 1993, Waterford took over Schwinn Bicycle Company’s Paramount Design Group research and production facility.

Founded by Richard Schwinn and Marc Muller, Waterford built on the Paramount history of excellence and performance and has established its own reputation the custom bicycle world.


I used to make bikes in Hazel Park and Rochester by the Shinola definition.


Well now, that's embarrassing. I thought all parts were created (wait, handcrafted) in Detroit. At least that was the impression all the hoopla has generated. I really thought there was a warehouse somewhere in Detroit with a bunch of folks "crafting" bike frames and whatnot. Seriously.

From their FAQ:
Our goal is to create Shinola products that are predominantly American made. Although a challenge today for numerous reasons, including the absence of at-scale American manufacturing for many of the components we need, we are working with like-minded partners to make it happen. At present, nearly all of our watchstraps, journals, and leather goods are sourced in the United States. Our watches and bicycles are 100% assembled in our Detroit factory with both domestic and internationally sourced components

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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:14 pm

I didn't know that about the bikes: I too was of the understanding that someone was forging parts right here (well, there) in Detroit.

This situation brings to mind the case of domestic content laws in foreign countries and how they were addressed by the Big Three. This is going back to the mid-90s, but I understood that Venezuela had a law to this effect, and Chrysler's work-around was to ship crates filled with kit cars for assembly by the locals. In other words there was really nothing manufactured in Venezuela that was needed or appropriate, so they'd let the natives perform the final steps of assembly. A few turns of the wrench by Jose and ta-da: a Venezuelan "made" Neon.

Kind of dispiriting to read that the watches are, to my eyes, only American in terms of the leatherwork. Like, who gives a shit about the leather? The precision work re: design, engineering, and manufacturing is where I'd expect the real value to be added. Welcome to New Venezuela, boys...
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby Sterile Whites 48313 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:19 pm

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:I didn't know that about the bikes: I too was of the understanding that someone was forging parts right here (well, there) in Detroit.

This situation brings to mind the case of domestic content laws in foreign countries and how they were addressed by the Big Three. This is going back to the mid-90s, but I understood that Venezuela had a law to this effect, and Chrysler's work-around was to ship crates filled with kit cars for assembly by the locals. In other words there was really nothing manufactured in Venezuela that was needed or appropriate, so they'd let the natives perform the final steps of assembly. A few turns of the wrench by Jose and ta-da: a Venezuelan "made" Neon.

Kind of dispiriting to read that the watches are, to my eyes, only American in terms of the leatherwork. Like, who gives a shit about the leather? The precision work re: design, engineering, and manufacturing is where I'd expect the real value to be added. Welcome to New Venezuela, boys...


Fender has been doing it for years with their Guitars, manufacture and finish the parts in Corona,CA. and ship them over the border to Mexico for assembly. Voila, a Mexi-Fender (American made quality, without the American made price). And riddle me this, Shinola gets frame and fork tubing from Mississippi, yet we have plenty of steel tubing manufactures here in Michigan. WTF? For example, in Madison Heights http://jamessteel.com/
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:35 pm

Sterile Whites 48313 wrote: And riddle me this, Shinola gets frame and fork tubing from Mississippi, yet we have plenty of steel tubing manufactures here in Michigan. WTF? For example, in Madison Heights http://jamessteel.com/


Likely a matter of price, and so my question is this: how much more to source locally? I'd guess that this bike is going forward, at least partially, on snob appeal per the "Detroit" parentage. Anyone can get a serviceable bike for hundreds (and hundreds?) less at Walmart, so the price clearly isn't the deal-breaker for the target audience, which is why I too wonder why not source local even if at the cost of an additional ten or 20 dollars to the retail price? Yeah, price elasticity, I get it, but I would expect that there would be hay to be made from and even more authentically "Detroit" product with the market for whom this product is intended.
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby Toolbox » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:53 pm

Sterile Whites 48313 wrote:
frank - up in grand blanc wrote:I didn't know that about the bikes: I too was of the understanding that someone was forging parts right here (well, there) in Detroit.

This situation brings to mind the case of domestic content laws in foreign countries and how they were addressed by the Big Three. This is going back to the mid-90s, but I understood that Venezuela had a law to this effect, and Chrysler's work-around was to ship crates filled with kit cars for assembly by the locals. In other words there was really nothing manufactured in Venezuela that was needed or appropriate, so they'd let the natives perform the final steps of assembly. A few turns of the wrench by Jose and ta-da: a Venezuelan "made" Neon.

Kind of dispiriting to read that the watches are, to my eyes, only American in terms of the leatherwork. Like, who gives a shit about the leather? The precision work re: design, engineering, and manufacturing is where I'd expect the real value to be added. Welcome to New Venezuela, boys...


Fender has been doing it for years with their Guitars, manufacture and finish the parts in Corona,CA. and ship them over the border to Mexico for assembly. Voila, a Mexi-Fender (American made quality, without the American made price). And riddle me this, Shinola gets frame and fork tubing from Mississippi, yet we have plenty of steel tubing manufactures here in Michigan. WTF? For example, in Madison Heights http://jamessteel.com/


They use True Temper tubing on the Shinola bikes. True Temper is probably the only manufacturer of steel bicycle tubing in the US. Bicycle tubing is not just any DOM steel tubing. It is manipulated a ton after being drawn - shaping, hydroforming, butting... Sure it could be done in the area but would take a ton of time and money to have it come together here.

True Temper Sports also manufactures hockey sticks, golf club shafts, arrow shafts, lacrosse sticks and many other sport related products and materials.
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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby Mad Max » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:07 am

The Suburban Avenger wrote:Artisan cocktails or whatever the fuck they call making you wait 10 minutes for a drink is. And the people that pour them.

4.0 and I took her folks to Two James around 9 p.m. Saturday night. Bar was full but the place hardly was hopping. A kid and two young women were behind the bar.
The bearded gnome comes over to us and informs it will be at least 20 minutes before we could get a drink because of the special care that goes into making them. 4.0's dad, who still seems fond of raising hell at 62, asks if he's going to freeze the ice cubes to make him a bourbon on the rocks. I had an old fashioned and the girls split a Moscow mule. The drinks were in front of us in less than five minutes.

I've heard similar stories from people who've walked into a relatively empty Sugar House. You'd think they're distilling the gin up their arrogant assholes.

I hate bartenders who think they're something more than the drummers of the service industry: They think they're one of a kind when there's a thousand more that can do the same job without the pretentiousness. Fuck 'em.


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Re: Stuff that is totally played out

Postby Megatron » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:00 pm

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:I didn't know that about the bikes: I too was of the understanding that someone was forging parts right here (well, there) in Detroit.

This situation brings to mind the case of domestic content laws in foreign countries and how they were addressed by the Big Three. This is going back to the mid-90s, but I understood that Venezuela had a law to this effect, and Chrysler's work-around was to ship crates filled with kit cars for assembly by the locals. In other words there was really nothing manufactured in Venezuela that was needed or appropriate, so they'd let the natives perform the final steps of assembly. A few turns of the wrench by Jose and ta-da: a Venezuelan "made" Neon.

Kind of dispiriting to read that the watches are, to my eyes, only American in terms of the leatherwork. Like, who gives a shit about the leather? The precision work re: design, engineering, and manufacturing is where I'd expect the real value to be added. Welcome to New Venezuela, boys...


They still do this. additionally there are plans to d othis in new markets as well.
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